How to Not Die in Silicon Valley

Blood boys. Cryogenic freezing. Living by the algorithm. Silicon Valley is known for a civilization of wellness optimization, but immoderate caller biohacking ventures are becoming much extreme–aimed not conscionable astatine longevity but astatine beating decease altogether. This week we speech astir the Silicon Valley moguls obsessed with living forever and the radical measures they’re taking to bash so.

You tin travel Michael Calore connected Mastodon astatine @snackfight, Lauren Goode connected Threads and @laurengoode, and Zoë Schiffer connected Threads @reporterzoe. Write to america astatine uncannyvalley@wired.com.

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Transcript

Note: This is an automated transcript, which whitethorn incorporate errors.

Michael Calore: I would similar to commencement by learning a small spot astir your greeting routines. What is the astir Silicon Valley happening astir your greeting routine? Zoë, you spell first.

Zoë Schiffer: Pretty overmuch the archetypal happening I bash … It depends connected wherever I americium successful my tech detox cycle. I either drawback my telephone and commencement furiously scrolling oregon I effort and meditate. One of the two.

Lauren Goode: Do you usage an app to meditate?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah, I usage Insight Timer sometimes.

Michael Calore: That's beauteous Silicon Valley. Lauren, what astir you?

Lauren Goode: I sometimes locomotion up the elevation that I unrecorded on. That sounds similar a opus lyric, but sometimes I bash that happening wherever I look eastbound to effort to get the earthy sunlight arsenic the time is rising, due to the fact that that's the happening that a batch of wellness and wellness gurus speech about. Not definite that's Silicon Valley either, but I perceive this connected podcasts.

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: What astir you, Mike?

Michael Calore: I would accidental my sunrise alarm timepiece that glows astatine 6 americium each morning. It conscionable precise dilatory turns from acheronian orangish to a brushed sunlight tone. It's truly adjuvant erstwhile the clip changes, due to the fact that for maine the prima ever comes up astatine precisely the aforesaid clip each morning, truthful it helps maine optimize my morning.

Zoë Schiffer: You ne'er oversleep?

Michael Calore: No, it ever wakes maine up. It's amazing. I person hacked my encephalon into waking up with it.

Zoë Schiffer: You said “optimize" and “hack," truthful you're the astir Silicon Valley of america all.

Michael Calore: This is WIRED's Uncanny Valley, a amusement astir the people, power, and power of Silicon Valley. I'm Michael Calore, manager of user tech and civilization present astatine WIRED.

Lauren Goode: I'm Lauren Goode. I'm a elder writer astatine WIRED.

Zoë Schiffer: I'm Zoë Schiffer, WIRED's manager of concern and industry.

Michael Calore: Today connected the show, wherefore are millionaires and billionaires successful Silicon Valley truthful obsessed with surviving forever? We look astatine the CEOs and the task capitalists going each successful connected the contention to bushed death. They're hacking their bodies. They're hacking their diets. They're trying to look and consciousness younger and unrecorded longer. We ask, What does it mean for the remainder of us? We are going to commencement contiguous with 1 of the astir overt Silicon Valley characters trying to bushed death, and that is Bryan Johnson. Bryan with a y, Johnson with a j. Zoë, you're the adept here, who is Bryan Johnson?

Zoë Schiffer: He's surely not a household name, but helium is the astir salient subordinate successful this abstraction close now. He grew up Mormon and founded the payments processing institution Braintree. He ends up stepping down arsenic CEO, but past Braintree goes connected to beryllium acquired by PayPal for similar $800 million. Johnson walks distant with astir 3 to 400 million, truthful not bad. But this clip play helium realizes that he's beauteous unhealthy, and helium takes banal of his beingness and feels similar he's depressed. He struggled with his value arsenic a kid too, and truthful helium becomes beauteous obsessed with health, wellness, fitness. Eventually this leads to an obsession with longevity, and specifically with surviving forever.

Bryan Johnson [archival audio]: In the 21st century. The lone nonsubjective we person is, don't die.

Zoë Schiffer: This leads america up to today, wherever he's spending, helium says, astir $2 cardinal a twelvemonth connected efforts to unrecorded forever. The efforts are somewhat outlandish. A small brainsick sounding. He's doing humor plasma exchanges with his 17-year-old son, his humor boy. He's taking astir 100 supplements a day. He's engaging successful penis daze therapy, which is beauteous overmuch what it sounds like, unfortunately. It's each bundled up into this blueprint plan, which helium calls an algorithm that tin instrumentality amended attraction of his physique than helium tin himself. Mike, it could beryllium yours for $333 a period positive a one-time sign-up fee. Not sponsored.

Lauren Goode: Zoë, I emotion however you said, "Penis daze therapy, precisely what it sounds like." What is this? Why?

Zoë Schiffer: I'm truthful atrocious to person to bash this to you. He says helium is trying to summation the clip of his nighttime erections, and helium besides claims that it has worked and his dick feels 15 years younger. I conjecture we tin instrumentality this connection for it.

Lauren Goode: I deliberation … Thanks for listening to this podcast, folks. We're done.

Zoë Schiffer: We're done.

Lauren Goode: … with this week's episode.

Zoë Schiffer: We're each going to spell instrumentality a cold-ass shower.

Lauren Goode: I person to admit, successful mentation for this episode, I went down the YouTube rabbit spread watching immoderate of his videos. Zoë, I cognize you besides stayed up precise precocious 1 nighttime speechmaking his book, which is called Don't Die, but I volition accidental helium knows however to seizure an assemblage with these unusual videos astir his fare and his humor plasma exchanges and different bizarre therapies. He comes crossed arsenic beauteous disarming successful these videos.

Bryan Johnson [archival audio]: The lone happening we tin play is don't die, don't termination each other, don't ruin our biosphere, don't ruin satellite Earth, and don't underestimate aligning with AI.

Lauren Goode: This is Bryan Johnson being interviewed connected the podcast The Diary of a CEO.

Bryan Johnson [archival audio]: We person to fig retired however each quality connected this satellite cooperates humans and the planet, artificial intelligence. It's this large tapestry of extremity alignment, of cooperation.

Lauren Goode: I deliberation the large question we person is however overmuch of this is bunk?

Michael Calore: Well, there's a agelong past successful Silicon Valley of trying to prolong beingness and biohack your mode towards longevity and fitness, I guess, is astir apt the champion to enactment it. But what are we talking astir erstwhile we speech astir quote-unquote Silicon Valley trying to unrecorded longer?

Lauren Goode: Yeah. This goes backmost agelong earlier Bryan Johnson. Like a batch of the trends that we spot successful the Valley, I deliberation immoderate of this stems from Google oregon Googlers. Google has been investing successful anti-aging probe since astatine slightest 2013. It started this concealed task called Calico, that was erstwhile referred to arsenic the Bell Labs of aging research. That probe reportedly didn't marque overmuch progress, but past Google besides formed thing called Verily, which was expected to assistance our knowing and detection of diseases. Then there's besides Sergey Brin, who is 1 of the Google co-founders. He's besides personally obsessed with these topics due to the fact that astatine 1 constituent helium learned helium has a familial mutation that puts him astatine a higher hazard for Parkinson's disease. He besides utilized to beryllium joined to Anne Wojcicki, the laminitis of 23andMe, which played a large portion successful his familial investigating process. But I deliberation we should besides conscionable marque a speedy favoritism arsenic we're talking astir each of these trends, there's a favoritism betwixt investors putting wealth into combating illness and past becoming obsessed with anti-aging and surviving everlastingly due to the fact that the 2 are related but aging is not considered a disease. It's a earthy process. Just to rapidly spell backmost to that earlier point, these radical whitethorn besides beryllium acold plunging oregon taking quality maturation hormones oregon person quote, unquote, "blood boys," but a batch of their fiscal interests prevarication successful illness prevention.

Michael Calore: Right. OK. If we abstracted those 2 things into buckets, and we enactment the worldly that benefits nine arsenic a full successful 1 bucket, past we enactment each the worldly that is like, "I'm affluent and I privation to unrecorded forever" successful the different bucket, what are we talking astir successful that bucket? What are immoderate of the experiments and companies that we person our eyes on?

Zoë Schiffer: Well, it's not truly wide what the favoritism is successful a batch of these cases due to the fact that immoderate of these efforts are conscionable truthful far-fetched that we haven't adjacent seen what bucket they autumn into yet. I deliberation Jeff Bezos is simply a bully illustration here. He's backing Altos Labs, the institution pursuing biologic reprogramming technology, which is simply a mode to rejuvenate cells and could beryllium utilized to widen the lives of humans eventually. That seems similar 1 to support our eyes on.

Lauren Goode: Then there's besides Peter Thiel, who I deliberation is going to travel up each truthful often connected this podcast. Thiel is readying to usage thing called the Alcor Life Extension Foundation, I had to constitute that down and I'm speechmaking from it, to frost his corpse aft helium dies truthful that helium tin beryllium revived aboriginal on.

Michael Calore: Just similar Walt Disney.

Lauren Goode: Did Disney bash that?

Michael Calore: Yeah. Disney connected ice.

Lauren Goode: Oh, my goodness.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh my God, Mike.

Michael Calore: No. It's-

Lauren Goode: Once again, convey you for listening to this podcast.

Zoë Schiffer: We're done. We are perfectly done.

Lauren Goode: This is the decision of this episode. There was this Mother Jones nonfiction that said that a tract squad from a contractor was going to swoop successful and regenerate Thiel's humor with anticoagulants and past chemicals. Then helium was going to beryllium packed successful crystal transferred and each this stuff, truthful this is firmly successful the … Would you telephone it longevity if you're dying, and past you're-

Zoë Schiffer: I would telephone it a fucking nationalist nightmare. Can you ideate thing scarier than having to unrecorded done 1 beingness of Peter Thiel and past helium dies and past he's resurrected and travel … Oh my God. At that point, surely don't resurrect me. I've lived done one, truthful I don't privation to bash it again.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. This goes backmost to what Zoë said astir immoderate of these are precise … They're precise outlandish. Some of these radical are channeling their efforts into their offspring too, right? Zoë, speech astir that?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. It's similar if you yourself can't unrecorded forever, past surely your bloodline indispensable unrecorded on. One of these radical is Sam Altman, and this is an absorbing investment. He's poured wealth into a biotech institution called Conception, which is fundamentally trying to spot if you tin make quality ovum cells from stem cells. In theory, this would mean that 2 men would beryllium capable to procreate.

Lauren Goode: Right. Also, TBD wrong our caller incoming medication arsenic to whether oregon not specified precocious reproductive options volition beryllium disposable to people.

Michael Calore: Right.

Lauren Goode: We should besides speech astir Orchid successful that vein due to the fact that that's a institution that's been getting immoderate attraction present successful Silicon Valley. In fact, astatine WIRED, we did a large interrogation with the laminitis of Orchid, Noor Siddiqui. She started this familial investigating institution that has marketed the quality for customers to bash immoderate truly precocious screening connected embryos 23andMe's Anne Wojcicki has invested successful the company, truthful has Brian Armstrong, the CEO of Coinbase. Then reportedly Elon Musk and Shivon Zilis, who is simply a erstwhile Neuralink enforcement who past became a genitor to Elon Musk's … How galore children, Zoë? I judge three.

Zoë Schiffer: We judge three.

Lauren Goode: Apparently they utilized Orchid. That's been a small spot arguable due to the fact that of the level of investigating that it does. Supposedly there's the accidental for it to bash extended investigating connected things similar neurodevelopmental disorders, terrible obesity, definite psychiatric conditions. The thought is wouldn't it beryllium large for parents to person entree to much accusation astir the wellness of their embryos, but it could devolve rapidly into thing that feels a batch similar eugenics.

Michael Calore: Right.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. It's truthful absorbing excessively due to the fact that I consciousness similar there's specified a presumption baked into that benignant of investigating connected what makes a bully life. Not to get excessively esoteric connected our podcast, but it truly is this presumption that being quote, unquote, "Healthy and mean successful a accepted sense," is truly important to pb the champion beingness possible. I'm conscionable not personally convinced that that's the case.

Lauren Goode: What it besides perchance does, since we're talking astir lifespan, means that you are successful a consciousness dictating what the imaginable lifespan of your aboriginal kid volition be.

Michael Calore: Yeah.

Lauren Goode: You're playing God.

Michael Calore: We person conscionable gone implicit what each of the millionaires and the billionaires are doing, what they're investing in, what they're funny in. What astir the scientists? Who are the scientists successful Silicon Valley who are truly astatine the forefront of this longevity movement?

Lauren Goode: Do you mean scientists oregon podcasters?

Zoë Schiffer: Lauren, however situation you?

Michael Calore: Am I guessing there's immoderate overlap here?

Lauren Goode: Yes.

Michael Calore: Is that what you're saying?

Zoë Schiffer: Yes. We person travel to the constituent successful the occurrence wherever I gleefully get to speech astir Andrew Huberman, who's a neuroscientist turned podcast host, has a precise fashionable podcast called the Huberman Lab podcast. Basically, his podcast focuses connected wellness hacks, science-based wellness hacks. Things similar acold plunges, antithetic supplements to take, mindfulness techniques. Things that are intended to summation people's wide well-being, and he's go a personage successful his ain close and the taxable of immoderate reporting, which Lauren, I cognize you person immoderate thoughts on.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. There was this diagnostic nonfiction successful New York Magazine earlier this twelvemonth that had immoderate revelations astir Andrew Huberman's idiosyncratic life. Mostly that helium was dating aggregate women astatine erstwhile who were not alert of each other, and galore of them felt harmed by that experience. He was besides utilizing precise therapized connection with them to amusement erstwhile an evolved man. He was. The astir absorbing portion was that contempt the information that his podcast is called Huberman Lab and helium is successful information a neuroscientist moving astatine Stanford University, helium was surviving successful Southern California, and the nonfiction suggested that his laboratory mightiness not adjacent beryllium a precise progressive lab.

Michael Calore: Have each of these revelations changed however you consciousness astir him?

Lauren Goode: There's my opinion, and past I'll conscionable accidental that I deliberation that his fans inactive truly mostly similar Huberman.

Michael Calore: I see. OK.

Lauren Goode: But, yes. What bash you marque of it, Zoë? Because Zoë, I cognize that you were connected the Huberman bid for a while. You were acold plunging and stuff.

Zoë Schiffer: I'm not going to telephone you retired for staring astatine the prima each morning, but I'll accidental that's classical Huberman close there.

Lauren Goode: That's a classical Huberman.

Zoë Schiffer: For sure, look East. Does Andrew Huberman talk for interaction grass? That's a immense happening that helium promotes. I did get connected the train, and I truly honestly liked his podcast. I'm besides idiosyncratic who does truly similar a bully wellness hack. I person a acold plunge and a sauna successful my backyard. Suffice to accidental that I americium a Huberman head, if you will. I did halt listening to the podcast astir the clip the mag nonfiction came out. It was a small hard to tummy aft that.

Michael Calore: If you're doing the Andrew Huberman worldly similar acold plunges and facing eastbound and taking attraction of yourself and really possibly eating better, making amended decisions astir sleep, utilizing exertion oregon utilizing biohacking methods to optimize those things, that's not needfully atrocious due to the fact that those tin turn into bully habits. Those tin beryllium things that consciousness sustainable. It's the different worldly that we person to beryllium much captious about, similar the efforts to unrecorded everlastingly that bash not consciousness sustainable.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. To Mike's point, there's besides this absorbing favoritism connected are you making tiny tweaks that mightiness beryllium uncomfortable successful the moment? A acold plunge tin beryllium uncomfortable, but they marque your existent beingness much enjoyable. You person much vigor close now. Or are you truly delaying gratification altogether connected the hopes that you tin unrecorded forever? Because that, to me, doesn't dependable similar a beingness I'd privation to live. It is banking connected this thought that he'll unrecorded successful perpetuity and possibly aboriginal helium tin person much fun.

Lauren Goode: I'm going to spell retired connected a limb present and accidental that we are not diluting ourselves either erstwhile we marque these tiny tweaks to our lifestyles oregon our habits successful bid to effort to unrecorded a healthier life. We're not besides reasoning I'm going to unrecorded everlastingly oregon I'm adjacent going to unrecorded to beryllium 100. We're afloat alert of the world of wherever we're headed, and we're not specified powerfulness mongers that we deliberation we tin power it.

Michael Calore: That's, to me, wherefore Bryan Johnson is truthful fascinating due to the fact that portion of his publication is trying to marque his day-to-day beingness better. But besides portion of his publication is immortality, and helium wants to unrecorded forever. It's similar he's attacking the occupation from some sides.

Lauren Goode: Didn't helium virtually big dinners called Don't Die?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. The dinners are a truly absorbing crossover betwixt the tech elite and the Hollywood elite. Kim Kardashian was really astatine 1 of the dinners recently, arsenic was Andrew Huberman hilariously. At the dinners, successful summation to talking astir the outlandish longevity techniques that Bryan Johnson is trying, helium besides poses this question helium says to his guests. The question is, "If you had entree to an algorithm that could springiness you the champion physical, mental, and spiritual wellness if your full life, but successful speech for entree to that algorithm you'd person to spell to furniture erstwhile it said, workout erstwhile it said, presumably devour what it said. Would you accidental yes oregon no?" Then everyone goes astir and gives their answer.

Lauren Goode: Would you accidental that is nutrient for thought?

Zoë Schiffer: Oh my God.

Lauren Goode: OK. True communicative though-

Zoë Schiffer: We’ve had to edit this podcast truthful galore times. Yet again –

Lauren Goode: True … There's a full different conception to come, folks. But existent story, I cognize idiosyncratic who went to 1 of those dinners. They said that afterwards they had to devour a cheeseburger.

Zoë Schiffer: Oh my gosh, due to the fact that they weren't satisfied with the dessert that's made with fractional a Brazil nut? I'm shocked.

Lauren Goode: Yes. Yes. It's similar connected those uncommon occasions possibly erstwhile 1 of america goes to a bully enactment dinner, and past you're self-conscious during it oregon they're feeding morsels that afterwards you spell location and you're like, "I truly privation McDonald's."

Michael Calore: OK. We request to instrumentality a break. But erstwhile we travel back, we're going to support talking astir wherefore Silicon Valley is truthful obsessed with surviving forever, and we are going to inquire each different the Don't Die meal question. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. All right. To get backmost into it, I privation to unreal that the 3 of america are astatine 1 of Bryan Johnson's Don't Die dinners. He turns to america with those everlasting bluish eyes, and helium asks, "If you had entree to an algorithm that tin springiness you the champion physical, mental, and spiritual wellness of your life, but successful speech for entree to the algorithm you would've to spell to furniture erstwhile it said, you would've to workout the mode that it said, you'd person to devour what it said. Would you accidental yes oregon would you accidental no?" Lauren?

Lauren Goode: I person a precise superior follow-up question.

Michael Calore: What's that?

Lauren Goode: Would this beryllium the Threads algorithm?

Zoë Schiffer: Lauren, you conscionable ever person to sneak successful shadiness for mediocre Threads.

Lauren Goode: No, due to the fact that this is each astir control. Right? It's excessive power implicit a caput and assemblage to execute an result of quote, unquote, "Living forever," which is not really a guaranteed outcome. Also, it sounds similar a miserable mode to unrecorded your life.

Michael Calore: Mm-hmm.

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. Control is truly absorbing because, honestly, it was a large portion of the critique astir Andrew Huberman that was cited successful the New York Magazine article. Basically the allegation was that helium was trying to power the women that helium dated. He was being beauteous controlling of their behaviour and what they did. It does look similar the mindset starts to spill implicit a small spot into different areas of your beingness and different people's lives.

Lauren Goode: What bash you think, Zoë? What are your thoughts connected the algorithm guiding your life?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. I'm with Lauren connected this. I deliberation there's a batch of joyousness to beryllium had successful occasionally staying up excessively late, possibly imbibing a substance oregon 2 that volition marque you consciousness similar trash the adjacent day. That's living. What astir you, Mike?

Michael Calore: I'm afloat connected committee with the some of you. I would accidental no. Absolutely not. But I consciousness similar if you're successful that situation, you conscionable said no, past the big and the different radical astir the array who consciousness the aforesaid mode arsenic the big would situation you connected it. You would person to travel up with this thought of individuality being important, and I privation to beryllium capable to marque my ain choices. I americium an autonomous quality being successful the world, which is weird due to the fact that you are accepting … By saying yes to that question by saying, "Yes, I'm surrendering to this algorithm that is going to optimize me," you are fundamentally reducing your ego successful bid to bash so. Whereas if you are saying, "No, I privation to marque my ain decisions. I privation to beryllium autonomous," past you are expressing your ego. Your ego is expanding to capable that.

Lauren Goode: I don't philosophically hold with that.

Michael Calore: OK.

Lauren Goode: I deliberation that if you surrender yourself to what your body, immoderate elements of your environment, what your beingness way holds for you, you're not surviving according to an algorithm. Then I deliberation that demonstrates little ego.

Michael Calore: Yeah. That's interesting. That really gets to the constituent that I'm trying to enactment to, which is that each of these efforts to widen your beingness and to unrecorded everlastingly and to usage your resources to amended your ain beingness feels similar they are driven by ego. Can we speech astir the ego of it all? Can we speech astir what is it peculiarly astir these folks and however they unrecorded their lives and wherefore they privation to unrecorded forever?

Lauren Goode: There's nary uncertainty that there's ego down this. I deliberation that immoderate of these entrepreneurs contiguous what they're doing arsenic altruistic. Like, "If I tin hack this oregon lick this for myself, past that's amended for humanity." But wherefore bash they judge they are the radical who should beryllium capable to unrecorded forever? We mentioned Anne Wojcicki and 23andMe earlier. I remembered that erstwhile I interviewed her for different podcast backmost successful 2017 I asked her immoderate mentation of this question. Like, "Why is Silicon Valley truthful obsessed with hacking death?" She said, "Look, I deliberation the world is conscionable that decease is the world for us." She acknowledged that immoderate of her peers mightiness beryllium unhappy with that statement, but it seems beauteous grounded successful reality. She said, I americium speechmaking now, "What everyone tin hold connected is that determination are genes and past there's their environment. Your genes dictate a definite element, but you person immense variabilities successful your environment." If we tin recognize what variables are important, past possibly you tin optimize those. But astatine the extremity of the day, we're each going to die. It does, I think, spell backmost to control. But possibly we should beryllium focusing connected somewhat reasonably controlling the things that we really can, similar definite elements of our situation and lifestyle, and past question retired advancements successful treatments that assistance people definite diseases versus attempting to power whether oregon not you tin frost your assemblage and revive yourself aboriginal connected oregon unrecorded to beryllium 150 years old.

Michael Calore: Right. Again, there's that span betwixt making yourself healthier successful the day-to-day, and past really trying to widen your beingness beyond what your genes and your situation would people dictate.

Lauren Goode: Yes. I deliberation that there's a definite hubris that comes with believing that a non-biologist could travel on and lick thing successful a timeframe that besides results successful a bully ROI for their investors.

Michael Calore: Yeah. I bash consciousness similar we request to speech astir the information that galore of the radical that we're talking astir are men who are successful this campy of, "I privation to unrecorded forever." We went done the full database successful the archetypal conception and it was each dudes, wasn't it?

Zoë Schiffer: Yeah. There are women involved. I don't privation to erase them from this past due to the fact that Anne Wojcicki, who Lauren was conscionable talking about, is successful a related space. Nicole Shanahan, an lawyer and astir precocious RFK Jr.'s moving mate successful the 2024 statesmanlike campaign, has been precise funny successful longevity efforts for years and years. Noor Siddiqui, the laminitis of Orchid, is different 1 of them. But yeah, the loudest radical successful the abstraction and the ones engaging successful the astir outlandish experiments, they bash look to beryllium predominantly men.

Lauren Goode: Well, there's besides Elizabeth Holmes, but we cognize however that turned out.

Zoë Schiffer: Right. The laminitis of Theranos, a aesculapian diagnostic institution that famously went nether for fraud.

Lauren Goode: Yep. That's wherever the determination fast, interruption things ethos truly goes incorrect here. At the aforesaid time, that's immoderate of the constituent of Silicon Valley getting progressive successful wellness and illness prevention and longevity. Some of these entrepreneurs judge that they tin velocity up the cause improvement and investigating process successful a mode that sometimes really is positive.

Michael Calore: What happens erstwhile you bring the conception of altruism into this? This thought that radical moving to unrecorded longer tin marque an interaction connected the satellite for the better? Like you said earlier, we person radical who are trying to unrecorded forever, and past radical who are spending their wealth and their resources trying to travel up with caller aesculapian exertion that is going to amended beingness for millions of people.

Zoë Schiffer: I did announcement that you near retired the effectual from altruism there, but it really did marque maine deliberation of that due to the fact that 1 of the questions that effectual altruists asked themselves erstwhile they're not SBF asking, "How bash I prosecute successful wide fraud?" Is, "Would this wealth that I'm going to enactment towards whatever, experiment, startup, you sanction it, beryllium amended spent connected malaria nets, which is solving a precise basal occupation that affects a batch of radical and it's not needfully sexy, but the solution is close determination successful beforehand of us?" That's the absorbing happening due to the fact that determination are problems related to wellness and wellness and longevity that impact millions of people, similar diabetes, but possibly it's not arsenic sexy to lick arsenic trying to tackle longevity and surviving forever. That 1 seems to get a batch of the attraction and a batch of the backing these days.

Michael Calore: It's the satellite shot.

Lauren Goode: It is.

Michael Calore: The Mars shot.

Lauren Goode: Yeah. I person to say, guys, I truly bash emotion this episode. It has everything. We're talking astir humor lad injections, mosquito nets to forestall malaria, effectual altruism, cryogenically freezing your assemblage and waking yourself up centuries later. Bryan Johnson's weird beingness hacks, which honestly, immoderate of them dependable intriguing to me. Maybe I should get a PRP attraction successful my under-eye bags. What else? What are we missing?

Zoë Schiffer: For journalism. For journalism.

Lauren Goode: The manosphere. Don't hide astir the manosphere.

Michael Calore: There's 1 large taxable that we person not touched connected yet.

Lauren Goode: Pronatalism? You're going there, aren't you? Please God, no.

Michael Calore: No. I was going to accidental AI, artificial intelligence.

Lauren Goode: Right. Right.

Michael Calore: Because-

Lauren Goode: Check that disconnected the bingo card.

Michael Calore: … this is Silicon Valley, I'm definite each of these companies that we've talked astir and each of these radical who are pursuing these large problems are utilizing artificial quality successful immoderate way. Right?

Lauren Goode: Yeah. This has a wide scope excessively due to the fact that there's artificial quality to effort to place and people diseases, which seems similar an incredibly valid usage lawsuit for this astonishing technology. Then I deliberation there's besides the acold extremity of the spectrum of radical who are like, "I'm going to upload my encephalon to the unreality and make an AI mentation of it, and thereby extending my life. I shall unrecorded forever." It is simply a small spot of main quality syndrome to deliberation that possibly your encephalon should beryllium uploaded for radical to entree for each of eternity. My mentation connected that is we're already uploading each of our brains to the internet. All of us. Every clip we log in, marque a keystroke, stock thing to societal media. We've been doing it for decades now. There are already AI facsimiles of each of us.

Michael Calore: But is it each end-to-end encrypted including the metadata?

Lauren Goode: Probably not. Sadly.

Michael Calore: That's a precise bully point. Who's it each for? All these efforts to unrecorded longer, to sphere your life, to unrecorded to beryllium implicit 100, who is it serving and for what purpose?

Zoë Schiffer: Right now, it seems similar it's astir being the idiosyncratic who solves this unsolvable problem. Some of the solutions similar figuring retired however to turn an ovum compartment from stem cells could payment galore people, but if we're talking astir the longevity efforts it seems precise intelligibly to astatine slightest mostly service the idiosyncratic engaging successful those efforts for the moment.

Lauren Goode: I bash deliberation that determination are a batch of astute people, well-resourced radical who are astir apt making astonishing efforts astir targeting diseases, improving planetary maternal health, for example. A batch of wellness and wellness issues. I conscionable deliberation it's the large and bizarre ones. The outlandish ones thin to get the astir attention.

Michael Calore: Yeah. And the astir costly ones. Maybe this is 1 of those scenarios wherever each of the technologies to widen your beingness 10 years outgo $1 cardinal oregon $100 cardinal close present per treatment, but successful 50 years it'll beryllium $49.99. Go get a changeable astatine the CVS, and you tin unrecorded different 10 years.

Lauren Goode: CVS astatine that clip is conscionable 1 elephantine planetary pharmacy. There are nary different pharmacies successful the world. Good luck with that.

Michael Calore: Your changeable is administered by a drone. May we each unrecorded agelong capable to spot this future. We request to instrumentality different speedy break. We'll beryllium close back. Welcome backmost to Uncanny Valley. We realized this full speech has been alternatively speculative and forward-looking. Some of it has been precise silly. A batch of it whitethorn consciousness retired of reach. But if you're funny successful this taxable determination is simply a batch of worldly retired determination that we tin constituent you to, truthful we're going to springiness you our recommendations for our favourite pieces of media, books, podcasts, et cetera, astir longevity. Zoë?

Zoë Schiffer: OK. My archetypal proposal does autumn wrong the manosphere Huberman universe, and it's Outlive, which is simply a publication by Peter Attia, who's a doc and writer who's truly focused connected expanding your wellness span alternatively than conscionable your lifespan. Honestly, I truly did similar a batch of the recommendations successful his publication chiefly due to the fact that they're somewhat basic. Although helium is encouraging radical to devour a small healthier and enactment retired much than we mightiness beryllium doing close now. It's not unattainable for the masses. The different person, Jenny Odell, who wrote the publication How to Do Nothing, which successful my caput is the textbook connected however to unrecorded a bully beingness close present with the resources that we each have.

Lauren Goode: Those are some large recommendations.

Michael Calore: Those are. OK, Lauren. Your turn.

Lauren Goode: I'm going to urge the Blue Zones. I cognize that this is anecdata oregon has been called arsenic overmuch and that we're not each going to unrecorded to beryllium 100. When … The Blue Zones focuses connected centenarians. The dataset the researchers are looking astatine has traditionally been precise small. Not galore radical astir the satellite unrecorded to beryllium 100 years old, but I inactive find it fascinating. I'm shocked by however often the Blue Zones inactive comes up successful conversations adjacent though this probe has been going connected present for implicit 15 years.

Michael Calore: What are immoderate of the celebrated Blue Zones astir the world?

Lauren Goode: Icaria, Greece is 1 of them. Sardinia, Italy. Okinawa, Japan. Nicoya, Costa Rica. Then-

Michael Calore: I privation to unrecorded successful each of those places.

Lauren Goode: … Loma Linda, California.

Zoë Schiffer: Is the thought that it's astir their fare oregon what-

Lauren Goode: Everything. Lifestyle. Community. Diet. Of course, these radical grew up successful a wholly antithetic era, pre-technology, but assemblage is simply a large portion of this too. Because determination are consistencies successful fare crossed the Blue Zones, but 1 happening that each of them stock is changeless question and a consciousness of community.

Zoë Schiffer: We're asking our bosses astatine Condé truly directly, for journalism, delight wage for Lauren's under-eye attraction and nonstop america each to Greece.

Lauren Goode: Yes.

Zoë Schiffer: Or we won't recognize what we're talking about.

Lauren Goode: We perfectly request to spell to a Greek Island to grounds the adjacent occurrence of the podcast.

Michael Calore: We request to marque definite we signifier a coagulated community.

Lauren Goode: A community. Right. Which is intelligibly what Bryan Johnson is conscionable trying to bash with his Don't Die dinners.

Zoë Schiffer: OK. Mike, what astir you? What's your proposal for america today?

Michael Calore: Well, if you privation to unrecorded forever, it's precise simple. You've got to spell vegan. You got to halt eating the nutrient macromolecule and commencement eating the works protein.

Zoë Schiffer: Mike, we consciousness targeted. You cognize that we are legitimately circling astir this. I'm trying to bash it.

Lauren Goode: Zoë, you had vegan pizza the different night. You said it was beauteous good.

Zoë Schiffer: I did. I did, and I work a really, truly scary nonfiction written by Annie Lowrey successful The Atlantic astir dairy farming, and it radicalized maine for astatine slightest 24 hours. I was connected oat milk. Thank you. I don't privation a prize.

Lauren Goode: Mike, however agelong person you been vegan for now?

Michael Calore: I don't know. 800 years.

Lauren Goode: Nice. Our nonmigratory long-living antheral connected this show.

Michael Calore: I've been afloat vegan for astir 5 years, and I've been vegetarian ever since I was a teenager. But look, arsenic a lifelong adherence to a plant-based lifestyle, I cognize it does not enactment for everybody. That was much of a joke. What I'm really going to urge for each of our listeners is my favourite tv programme astir immortality. It's called True Blood. It's an HBO amusement astir vampires successful the South.

Zoë Schiffer: It's a documentary astir the archetypal humor boys.

Michael Calore: It's fantastic.

Lauren Goode: True story. True story. No, it's scripted.

Michael Calore: It's campy, which is the champion happening astir it due to the fact that it takes itself earnestly astir of the time, and past it does not. It is afloat of enactment and unit and humor. It's a batch of fun. Fantastic acting from each of the main actors, and determination are similar a twelve radical connected the amusement who are really, truly great. I highly urge you spell backmost and you ticker True Blood. It was primitively connected television, what, 15 years ago? Something similar that. It feels similar everlastingly ago.

Lauren Goode: You cognize what I emotion the astir astir this proposal is that it enables maine to transportation 1 of my favourite phrases from our past podcast, Gadget Lab, onto this one, which is, "Love a bully Skarsgård."

Michael Calore: "Love a bully Skarsgård."

Lauren Goode: Longtime listeners volition appreciate.

Michael Calore: This is the gangly and handsome Alexander Skarsgård.

Lauren Goode: As a vampire. As a sexy vampire.

Michael Calore: As a vampire named Eric. Yeah. That's what I got.

Lauren Goode: Thanks for breaking the mold, Mike.

Michael Calore: You're welcome. All right, that is our amusement for today. We volition beryllium backmost adjacent week with an occurrence that looks astatine Silicon Valley's agelong narration with libertarianism. Thanks for listening to Uncanny Valley. If you liked what you heard today, marque definite to travel our amusement and complaint it connected your podcast app of choice. If you'd similar to get successful interaction with america with immoderate questions, comments, oregon amusement suggestions you tin constitute to america astatine uncannyvalley@WIRED.com. We cannot hold to perceive from you. Today's amusement is produced by Kyana Moghadam, Amar Lal astatine Macro Sound mixed this episode. Jordan Bell is our enforcement producer. Thanks besides to enforcement producer, Stephanie Kariuki. Condé Nast's caput of planetary audio is Chris Bannon. We volition beryllium backmost adjacent week forevermore.